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12,008 Withdrawl Date
February 11, 2008 in Video | Permalink
Comments
And that is exactly why I will vote for McCain.
Posted by: chaz | Feb 11, 2008 11:45:27 AM
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Chaz | Feb 11, 2008 11:51:04 AM
He's got the Kavorka!!!
Posted by: David | Feb 11, 2008 3:51:19 PM
Is there an Eastern Orthodox priest in the house?
Posted by: Chaz | Feb 11, 2008 4:14:58 PM
First of all, I know that this is just a random, hipster, anti-war, anti-McCain attack ad(?) and not a campaign commercial, but I honestly can't understand why the Democrats are still talking about the war. They should stick to talking vaguely about change, attacking McCain's age, and creating a panic about the economy.
I couldn't believe Pelosi this morning calling Iraq a failure! Why on earth would a political party set themselves up to gain only if the American forces in Iraq fail? Nevertheless, this is what they've done. God knows why nobody ever tells all the success stories in the news, but they are undeniably there and happening every day. And when Petraeus comes back to Washington in April to give his SITREP do you think people on the fence (if they exist) are going to vote for the party that wants to allow the troops to continue to succeed or the party that wants to give up and bring everyone home in 60 days? That the Democrats would position themselves to gain only by U.S. failure is as disgusting to me as the media's failure to highlight all the successes and the goals we've accomplished over there. Having been to Iraq three times I can say that I have the stomach to continue the war until we reach a point where we can come home successfully, even if the artists and musicians in that video (God bless them) do not.
I as a moderate conservative would overlook any of McCain's domestic policies that I disagreed with because I appreciate his confidence in the US forces and his willingness to not throw away the successes we've fought so hard for for the last few years. And I bet there are a lot more people out there who feel the same way and will feel that way in the fall. .. especially if the Democrats continue to paint themselves into a corner as the party who thinks the troops have already lost and we ought to just quit and go home.
Posted by: Chaz | Feb 11, 2008 5:03:40 PM
@ Chaz
Well first off, you and I both know that the Dems have invested so much time, energy and money in ensuring that President Bush, the troops and Iraq as a whole fails that if we succeed in our mission there they have wasted it all. Personally, I truly believe that they DO want us to fail. But it is like you say, they only focus on the bad. The reality is that at any given moment on any given day there are thousands of missions happening at one time. So let's say for the sake of argument that 2,000 missions are happening from 0200 - 0600.... and let's say that at 0800 a news report comes on saying that we screwed up during one of them...... that's 1 out of 2,000! I can't think of a single civilian I have ever met that could operate at that efficiency, not even here at home under ideal circumstances. But it isn't their fault that they don't understand chaz, they never will! The bottom line is that this country is full of people so willing to open their mouths to fight for what they believe in (even when it is wrong and against their own country) yet terrified to to stand up and sign their name on the line to go over. Meanwhile, I have personally been twice, have friends that have been 5 times and we would be willing to go again. I am so tired of hearing how we aren't accomplishing anything, how we are failing, how we shouldn't be there..... all coming from people who couldn't even tell you where Iraq is geographically located. From people who think the hippies during Vietnam were right and want to follow in their footsteps. From people who think that anyone who joins the military is an idiot and joined cause they had nowhere else to go. Like you said buddy, when the SIT-REP comes down the pipeline...... then we will see where we stand. Through the eyes of those who have been multiple times and seen the changes, we are doing the exact opposite of failure. I have watched 18 year old children accomplish more in a few hours than most Americans accomplish in a month - and do so under the most stressful conditions. But this is a market driven economy, and economic gain comes in more forms than just money. To the Dems, it is economically beneficial for us to lose. That is the real reason they push so hard against it. They have been pushing since 2001 simply so they can gain political control..... deceiving the very people they say they represent. That's fine though, we will see what the history books have to say. I can promise you that 20 years from now when they are being written, I am going to be proud that I did my part. And I don't want any whining libs riding my coat tails trying to act like they were a part of what we did for America, the Middle East and the World. Simply put, we need to be there, we are there and we need to finish this. I will happily vote for anyone who wants to stay for 1 year or 20 to do the right thing.
Posted by: Dietrich | Feb 11, 2008 6:23:00 PM
Amen. I hope when the history books are written and they talk about Fallujah and Ramadi I will have kids and be able to tell them about the good things I did and that the Iraqis will remember that we stood by them and did not allow election politics to prevent them from being overtaken by the extremist groups that would swarm in from a 60 day withdrawal plan.
Semper Fi, brother
Posted by: Chaz | Feb 11, 2008 11:07:22 PM
Ha, I just watched this video again and it is more ridiculous the second time. What is funny to me is that Libs are ready and willing to fight for pro-choice, gay marriage, the rights of Terrorist "detainees", the Aids epidemic in Africa, Global Warming, alternative fuels (you know, using our food source as a fuel source - so we can become dependent for food), anything anti-Bush, etc, etc, etc, yet they find it absurd that we should help the people of Iraq. In reality, as much as they say they care about helping the world, their opposition to the war is actually nothing more than a contradiction. I'm not sure that a single person who opposes the war has any inclination as to why. Yeah, yeah, I have heard it all before; Killing innocent people, Just after oil, It's not our place, Bush has his hand in the oil companies, The economy and the national deficit, blah, blah, blah, etc.....EXCUSES! Pick up a book and read! The fact of the matter is that throughout history there have been wars for all types of reasons and between all types of people. Even in the lost tribes of Africa and South America, where there are no politics or governments, there are wars. Since the beginning of time, whether you believe the "Creation Story" or the "Big Bang", there have been wars. This pattern WILL continue until the end of time. If you think McCain is saying anything other than this, you live in a fictional narrative you call your life. Helping those in need doesn't mean picking and choosing what you are willing to do based on what will be the biggest tax write-off. Anyone who doesn't feel that everyone in the world deserves the right to live free form oppression doesn't deserve it them self. For those of you who complain about the 4 years we have been in Iraq, let me offer you a little bit of history on our own nations struggle to be free;
Jamestown, the first successful English colony, was founded on May 13, 1607. As all of you should know, the Declaration of Independence was adopted on July 4, 1776. That means that it took 169 plus years of struggle for our forefathers to actualize independence. In 1775 the Revolutionary War began and ran until 1783 for a grand total of 176 years. During this time, the settlers of our nation were supported by many European nations. For example, in 1778 France declared war on Britain on our behalf. In 1780, Spain and the Netherlands declared war on Britain and signed foreign peace treaties of alliance with our young nation. In 1783, the Treaty of "Paris" was signed marking the end of the war and our sovereignty. France played a decisive role in our defeating Britain and had it not been for the naval support of France, the Victory in the Chesapeake and the surrender of Britain never would have happened.
My point is this, STOP BITCHING! Not only did it take nearly 200 years for our own nation to establish democracy but it took the help of many different nations joining us in our fight. None of those nations "had" to help and I am certain they all sacrificed in order to do so. They all lost men, spent money, endured hardships, etc so that we can enjoy the freedoms we have today. Without the support, dedication and sacrifice of those nations, we would still be under British rule.
So now let's look at our current situation.... It has been 4 years and in that time frame we have accomplished the majority of what took us 176 years. Stop and think before you say we are failing, stop and think before you say we should leave. For those of you who say the Iraqi people don't long for democracy and freedom and therefore we should leave, go spend some time with an Iraqi family who was so heavily taxed by Saddam that they couldn't afford to eat. Spend some time with a family who lives in fear of the militia that wonders the streets of their neighborhood and has already killed members of their family for associating with Americans. Spend some time with a family and watch their eyes light up as they watch a patrol of US or coalition forces risk their lives and ask for nothing in return. Spend some time providing medical assistance or handing out school supplies and food or providing protection so they can vote for the first time. Watch as Iraqi's turn out in unimaginable numbers to vote despite the fact they will be killed for the ink print on their thumb. Experience the gratitude expressed by Iraqi communities when you free them from a terrorist cell that plagues their neighborhood and watch as they realize for the first time that they no longer have to live in fear. Look into the eyes of a group of children celebrating in the streets chanting "good good Bush" and tell me they don't want democracy.
Get off of your self indulgent high horse and realize that we have a duty and a responsibility to the world to offer what we have been given. Stop focusing on "how bad" you THINK things are as you sleep in a nice warm bed in the house you own. Stop focusing on "how bad" things are as you file your taxes and the government gives you a refund because you paid too much. Stop protesting the very thing you were given some 232 years ago by nations that were under no obligation to do so. Stop this feeling of insignificance that causes you to fight for anything, right or wrong, simply because you "need" to "stand" for something. And for God's sake, show some respect and loyalty to the men and women who have sacrificed everything for the preservation of that 176 year struggle.
Posted by: Dietrich | Feb 12, 2008 1:35:15 AM
Yes.
"We" wish for the war to be unsuccessful because it is good for the economy.
All Hail Zod!
Posted by: humidhaney | Feb 12, 2008 8:51:53 AM
"The fact of the matter is that throughout history there have been wars for all types of reasons and between all types of people."
You are such a douche. I can't keep reading your crap. But I am glad Charlie likes it.
Lets try another one:
"The fact of the matter is that throughout history there have been Priests molesting children for all types of reasons."
So it is okay with Dietrich.
You douche.
Posted by: humidhaney | Feb 12, 2008 8:58:30 AM
Wars and child molestation? Probably the weakest analogy I've ever heard from an adult.
Posted by: douche | Feb 12, 2008 10:00:51 AM
That is not an analogy. It is a play on logic. Of which Dietrich is lacking.
And if you think I think Dietrich is cool with child molestation, well then your name is fitting.
Posted by: humidhaney | Feb 12, 2008 10:09:40 AM
Dietrich, Chaz, don't bother. Men are from Mars, liberals are from Venus.
Formation of a liberal stance:
1. find something that upsets you emotionally.
2.Cry, or write a poem.
3.Find ways to oppose the upsetting situation on philosophical grounds.
4.Strongly oppose all objections to your opinion on moral grounds.
5.Demonize those who disagree.
It's like arguing with a wife or girlfriend. Ever find yourself in an argument with your significant other about some trivial thing? You could argue all day but you'd never get anywhere until you realize the real reason she's upset is that she's gained a few pounds.
Posted by: douche | Feb 12, 2008 10:16:20 AM
And it is an analogy. But what holds for war does not hold for child molestation because the comparison is so weak.
Posted by: douche | Feb 12, 2008 10:18:04 AM
Humidhaney, don't bother. [insert tired, pop psychology metaphor which frames conservative ideology as foreign and unworthy of serious consideration]
Formation of a Conservative stance:
1. Find something that upsets you Financially or strikes you anti-nationalistic or un-american.
2. Form a PAC or hire a lobbyist, or cry to Sean Hannity about it. (
3. Find ways to oppose the upsetting situation on Religious grounds.
4. Strongly oppose all objections to your opinion on moral grounds.
5. Demonize those who disagree. And the superfluous mob called the rest of planet Earth, don't forget to demonize them as well.
Douche, you're a fucking dimwit and, well, a Dietrich.
Posted by: Liberal | Feb 12, 2008 10:58:02 AM
What are you upset about? Let's get to the root of it all. Like I said, there's no point in trying to discuss anything because people who disagree with your views are just treated to liberal soundbites, namecalling, and mockery. You're proving my point. Dietrich disagrees with you, so
1.Call him a douche
2.Mock his opinions/religious beliefs
3.Change the subject
Posted by: douche | Feb 12, 2008 11:08:58 AM
Who is upset?
You missed the point of my post, which shows the similarities and ease in which one can construct a pseudo-political, narrow-minded reductive argument. (re: fucking dimwit.)
You called yourself douche, I called you a dietrich.
Posted by: Liberal | Feb 12, 2008 11:25:32 AM
You are a douche.
You see the world in black and white with a lack of compassion and logic.
Lets talk about baseball.
Posted by: humidhaney | Feb 12, 2008 12:01:49 PM
@ Haney
What would be the actual problem with someone seeing the world in black and white? (i.e. good and bad) Does having compassion mean that you should condone what you feel is moraly and ethically wrong?
Posted by: Dietrich | Feb 12, 2008 3:44:55 PM
Nothing is completely good or completely bad. Nothing is completely right or completely wrong.
Things are Grey.
That is all I am saying.
In terms of compassion, if someone is able to justify the death of 100,000 plus Iraqis without remorse, I would find them lacking it.
Posted by: humidhaney | Feb 12, 2008 4:52:49 PM
@ Haney
You are right, things are gray. However not all things are the same shade of gray. I agree that there are situations in life that fall dead in the middle but most actions lean towards one side or the other. Is it not our moral responsibility to oppose the things in life we see as wrong? For example, you oppose the war because you feel it is wrong. I, on the other, am for the war because I feel that what we are doing and the sacrifices being made are worth the end result. As you say, nothing is "all good" or "all bad" and I agree completely that there are sides of war that are inevitably horrible. However, there are also sides to it that are undeniably good. It is a matter of give and take and in my opinion giving a group of people the opportunity to be free is worth just about any sacrifice. That isn't even taking into consideration the actions that took place on September 11, 2001 at the Twin Towers. That alone is justification for much more retaliation then we have delivered. But people have forgotten all about that.
As far as compassion, anyone who will kill 100,000 innocent people doesn't have compassion. I can think of a few names that openly killed thousands upon thousands of innocent people; Hitler, Osama, Saddam, etc... The enemy in a war, those standing in front of you with a gun trying to kill you, they are not innocent. And those are the same people who kill the innocent civilians of Iraq everyday - meanwhile you bash American troops who sacrifice their own lives to protect those innocent civilians. Seems ass backwards to me. You have to understand that the death in Iraq would be happening regardless of our involvement. Quite frankly, it would be happening at an accelerated rate just as it did during Saddam's reign. That's fine though, pull all the troops out of Iraq, watch as genocide engulfs the region and know that people who think like you allowed it to happen. And then, when those extremist are here in America killing your friends and family, like they did on September 11th, know that there is no one to blame but yourself. If you have forgotten, destroying America and our democratic way of life is their proclaimed ultimate goal - They tell us everyday but you choose not to take it serious. I guess you think it is impossible for anyone to hate you for your beliefs and threaten your freedom. Cause freedom is free right?
Posted by: Dietrich | Feb 12, 2008 6:55:00 PM
What I will never understand is the argument:
"We should pull out because we never should have gone in in the first place."
It seems to me you have to view the whole endeavor as an unmitigated failure before you can think like that.
Posted by: Chaz | Feb 12, 2008 8:07:21 PM
How about "We need to get out because we never belonged there in the first place and our job should not be to police and control other countries, especially when it inflames hatred toward us and creates more terrorists."
I understand the logic in fighting them there versus here. But what are we planning on doing, killing Muslims till we get to the core of the secular ones?
I am pretty sure that is a sure ticket to failure and an evangelists wet dream.
Posted by: humidhaney | Feb 13, 2008 10:59:37 AM
How about "We need to get out because we never belonged there in the first place and our job should not be to police and control other countries, especially when it inflames hatred toward us and creates more terrorists."
Haney, seriously, that is a weak and one sided argument. First of all, for every extremist we cause to hate us more by our involvement in Iraq, we gain a family of loyal supporters. Second of all, you are right, it isn't our job to police the world. That is what the military and conservatives alike have been telling you for 4 years now. However, you (Liberals) have tied the hands of the Bush administration and the military to do anything more than act as police. Do you think it isn't very frustrating for a soldier on the ground in Iraq to be told by some liberal anti-war politician how to do their job? We should be out of Iraq, we should have been out for a long time now. The reality however is that the same liberal politicians and their loyal followers are the ones keeping us there. It is the ridiculous Rules of Engagement, thought up by liberals to protect Iraqi lives rather than American troop lives, that has kept us there for so long. It is the escalation of force SOP's mandated by the liberals that have kept us there for so long. It is the constant protest, by liberals, of every decision the Commander in Chief makes that has kept us there for so long. And ultimately, it is the liberal media who feels the need to feed anti-war liberals misinformation that has kept us there for so long. This war could have been over in a year, maybe two. (just my opinion) Had America, as a whole, stood behind the President they elected and behind the troops, this whole thing would be over. You can not even begin to imagine how much more we could be doing to win over there if we were allowed to. It is the most frustrating thing. But the laws deciding what we can and can't do are being dictated by Liberal politicians who want to see Bush fail. A house divided will fall! The lack of support by your political party is the absolute root of why this war is still going on....BOTTOM LINE!
Posted by: Dietrich | Feb 13, 2008 7:11:47 PM
Yup. If the Dems would stop trying to figure out how to get out we would get out because Bush and his people really don't want us to be there.
You are exactly right and I have no idea how I could possibly not see the logic to your assertion.
It is silly of me to think otherwise.
I will now support the War and hope that it will go on for 20 years so that it will end tomorrow.
But to be honest I secretly want us to remain there. The more time we occupy Iraq the more we will create a unified family of support for America and our God given Freedom.
Posted by: humidhaney | Feb 13, 2008 7:18:40 PM
