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We Deserve What Is Coming.
I know what I think is going to happen to the Republic of America in the next 10 years.:
The breakdown of the economy. The schism in our society with those who want to keep supporting the limitations on civil liberties "to keep us safe" and those who wish to break free from state control. The haves and the have-nots getting more spread out and ranks increased. The effects of the lack of investment in our higher education and infrastructure.
And I think we deserve it because we are stupid. We are lazy. We lack vision. We are scared and too religious. We let the media and our government play us.
What do you think?
November 29, 2007 in BITCHING & SCHEMING | Permalink
Comments
"The schism in our society with those who want to keep supporting the limitations on civil liberties "to keep us safe" and those who wish to break free from state control."
Your interpretation of The Constitution and mine apparently differ.
The "civil liberty" of being a terrorist and a foreign citizen and not having a sandbag over my head is one you can take away because I frankly don't plan on using that one. And my Constitutional right to plan terrorist attacks by phone and not have them monitored is one you can strip me of, too, because I don't plan on using that one either.
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And I think we deserve it because we are stupid. We are lazy.
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Well, i don't think we deserve it, because it's not going to happen, but there are a lot of stupid, lazy people out there.
Posted by: Charles | Nov 29, 2007 1:35:46 PM
What country out there provides more hope for the average citizen than the U.S.? Got one? What's their population?
Posted by: Charles | Nov 29, 2007 1:40:03 PM
My plan for personal success, regardless of national debt, civil liberties, religion, or media:
1.)Work Hard
2.)Lead a moral life
3.)When a problem arises, don't complain; solve it.
Posted by: Charles | Nov 29, 2007 1:42:36 PM
One of the bedrock principles of this country was that the government couldn't listen to your phone calls just because it said it had to (of course, no phones in 1787, but . . . ). Someone else, someone detached, had to say "okay, you've presented enough evidence to support a conclusion that this person's privacy should be invaded, however narrowly, in order to investigate a crime or potential crime." Because the "trust us" approach had only ever led one way -- to paranoid governments spying on their political enemies. Given the current political climate, and the fact that this has happened in recent memory (Watergate, the Clinton review of FBI files), I wouldn't put it past this administration or any subsequent administration to abuse secretly-held power. This is the administration that famously announced the opening (followed quickly by the *alleged* closing) of the Pentagon Office of Disinformation.
That said, the point that Blake makes is, to me, a corollary to the most important check that we have on all of this, which is that when things like this start to happen, we all have the power to throw the bums out. That's why Blake says we deserve what we get. If we don't value civil liberties, fine. But if we value civil liberties and we think that the government's power ought to be restrained, even if that means that there will inevitably be holes in our safety net, then we deserve what we get if we don't throw the bums out when they start chipping away at our civil liberties.
And if you don't think you need your civil liberties, listen to the stories that people tell about Russian police coming to their homes and threatening to out them for their homosexuality or arrest them for their dissident views. It probably can't happen here . . . we hope. As with taxes, where the conceptual shift from "taxes are our money that the government, unfortunately, must take in order to fulfill its basic missions" to "taxes are the government's money to which we were never entitled" has been made, we are shifting from "liberty belongs to the people, to be given up reluctantly and only upon a showing of compelling need" to "liberty is a product of the government and can be revoked, secretly, at will."
Posted by: Yo-Yo | Nov 29, 2007 2:12:05 PM
morals, schmorals. i'm sick of the puritanism in this country. try ethics, which this government severely lacks. and stop preaching. and then loosen up and have some fun. i agree, despite our relatively higher rates of schooling and the amount of money we pay for higher education, this country is full of small-minded idiots. religion and "morals" and holier-than-thou, god-loving lemmings are the reason for the lack of national consciousness and introspection.
and save your love-it-or-leave it comments. i ain't going nowhere.
"life's a bitch and then you die. that's why we get high. cuz you never know when you're gonna go." -nas
Posted by: Cynthia | Nov 29, 2007 2:42:40 PM
Thanks, Yo-Yo. I'm going to argue with you, but that was a good post.
Some people are absolutists when it comes to civil liberties. I don't think our founding fathers necessarily were, but I don't think it matters. Mainly because I don't think it's easy to view the state of affairs we are in now in terms of 18th century politics. It is easier to do, I think, if you're an absolutist. It's just my firm OPINION that:
1. I do not have a problem giving up certain civil liberties in order to deal with terrorist threats. I suppose you could interpret our right to privacy (which i don't see as absolute) to say that the government doesn't have that right. I believe they do. I don't care if the "government" listens to all my phone calls. I don't break the law, do anything wrong, or care who listens. I also don't think they're listening to me either. I think one of the major problems we had (and still have to some degree) before 9/11 was poor communication between intelligence agencies. The Patriot Act has done a lot to streamline that. It's also limited people's right to privacy. If we were not at war, I wouldn't condone it. If we were getting attacked regularly, I'd question it. But we are at war and we have not been attacked here since 9/11, despite terrorists' promises to attack us and their success in other countries with less effective intelligence systems. I know Blake's probably rolling his eyes right now, but I find it hard to take a stand "on principle" denying the government that right at this point, given how successful it's been.
And I don't see the Patriot Act (if that's what he's talking about) leading us down a slippery slope to where gestapos are marching down the streets and people are being persecuted wholesale. Do you honestly see that happening? Honestly?
And the check against this, I would think, would be the nominated Supreme Court Justices, whom we as the voting public have a sort of indirect check upon.
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As with taxes, where the conceptual shift from "taxes are our money that the government, unfortunately, must take in order to fulfill its basic missions" to "taxes are the government's money to which we were never entitled" has been made, we are shifting from "liberty belongs to the people, to be given up reluctantly and only upon a showing of compelling need" to "liberty is a product of the government and can be revoked, secretly, at will."
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I just don't agree. I understand the conceptual shift in the way we view taxation that you are talking about, and I understand that both shifts are possible, but I don't understand how the two are linked. I don't see the cause for the first conceptual shift, and maybe I don't see the second shift in the same light as you. Maybe I do, though. I think we still think that
"liberty belongs to the people, to be given up reluctantly and only upon a showing of compelling need"
and avoid,
"liberty is a product of the government and can be revoked, secretly, at will."
by electing our government officials. I think you, Blake, and I can agree on that. I don't see the connection to taxes, though the dynamics are similar.
I am just not buying the whole doomsday scenario that we are going down the tubes because of all this. I don't believe this is as excessive as some people say, and I don't see a valid slippery slope argument as some others obviously do.
Posted by: Charles | Nov 29, 2007 3:06:51 PM
@Cynthia:
"love it or leave it comments?" Where? Nobody said anything like that. Yo-Yo and I were just discussing two sides of an issue, impersonally.
Posted by: charles | Nov 29, 2007 3:29:53 PM
I was just getting coffee the other day and saw a terrorist getting a latte so I don't think the Wars have been working. We should invade another country. Which one will work best for us?
And I think America is the country with the most hope. We have 4.5 times as much hope as other countries. But not as much love as I think we should. And look at the happy index. Not very high.
Is hope measured in prayer kilos or liters? I can never remember if it is a liquid or solid.
I hope Blackwater can fight off the Mexicans next. I have Hope for that. Yay Blackwater!
Posted by: humid haney | Nov 29, 2007 3:43:55 PM
How did you know he was a terrorist?
Posted by: Charles | Nov 29, 2007 3:47:52 PM
I overheard his cell phone conversation while waiting in line.
I plan to foil his plot and no one will be the wiser. I keep these victories secret. No need to show off about it.
America: 1, Latte Ordering Terrorists: 0
Posted by: humid haney | Nov 29, 2007 3:51:48 PM
As long as you didn't tap his phone I guess you're in the clear as far as violating his civil liberties. But you've already said too much. Go, foil the plan before it's too late.
Posted by: Charles | Nov 29, 2007 3:56:23 PM
I think I'm going to head down to RC Bridge Lounge tonight and have a few too many.
Posted by: ChazzerBuddy | Nov 29, 2007 3:59:03 PM
Did I say "tonight?" I meant late afternoon.
Posted by: Chjezzjer | Nov 29, 2007 4:00:44 PM
I will be there for a Krewe du Vieux meeting at 6:30.
Be there or be a terrorist.
Posted by: humid haney | Nov 29, 2007 4:27:20 PM
I'm meeting up with an old buddy and we're going somewhere. His brother has a studio somewhere on the Muse streets between Mag and St. Charles so that's probably where we'll end up. Is it going to be closed to the public?
Posted by: Cjez | Nov 29, 2007 4:32:03 PM
Good, and unfortunate, assessment. I tend to see things in a very similar and theoretically grounded way. Max Weber said as much would happen to any society which "rationally" operated, yet the rationality created class/status/power system of stratification would become "rationally" impermeable as those groups who control scarce resources seek to maintain those resources. Weber is pessimistic about any social change emerging from this system--only that tensions will emerge as people "realize" that the so-called "fair" system is nothing of the sort, but even then what will be required is a "charismatic" leader to emerge to carry the cause. Even if this is achieved, this charismatic leader can take on the humanistic virtues of Martin Luther King, Jr., or the totalitarian characteristics of a Hitler.
Charles, I really have to laugh at your comments. I don't know whether to take you as serious or as a flame artist. I'm afraid that if you are serious, you reflect the naive tenor of many in American society who do not see the truly oppressive and unfair state we live in--all of us, except those who control between 1 to 5% of wealth in this society. Both Weber and Pierre Bourdieu lay strong foundations for the way those who sit below the top class/status/power tier "legitimate" the existing oppressive and unfair social system, thinking the system is indeed fair and just. Until a good number of us realize how this system is working against our own self- and species interest, and then work to educate others about it, we are not going to see any signficant social change. Unfortunately, by the time we do realize this, it may be the end of our society as we know it.
Posted by: Banzai Bill | Nov 29, 2007 5:13:01 PM
Ah yes. Good old Banzai Bill to the rescue.
I am right there with you. Folks need to wake the hell up. If not we must start a new community in Mexico.
Neuvo Orleans!!!
Posted by: humid haney | Nov 29, 2007 6:58:50 PM
Uh...fuckin' eh Bill. What Bill said, man. I was too apathetic to respond...but yeah, I couldn't have come close to articulating it as good as you did anyway.
When is your book coming out, brah? I'm first in line.
Posted by: Dambala | Nov 29, 2007 7:58:09 PM
Wait. You were listening to my cell phone call? Damn You!
Posted by: latte ordering terrorist | Nov 29, 2007 9:31:07 PM
I need to get directions to that place you went in Mexico, in case Costa Rica doesn't work out for me. Do they have lattes?
Posted by: Vicky | Nov 30, 2007 7:03:44 AM
mmmmm, lattes.
Posted by: David | Nov 30, 2007 8:45:28 AM
@ Banzai Bill
I don't think I'm a flame artist (guessing at what that means); I think I'm serious. I am actually just a guy who does not see the need for a comprehensive social revolution here.
I never thought of myself as naive or as representing a segment of society who is oblivious and uncritical of their government, but I suppose I'll allow that there are many who think like I do. But regardless of why they think as they do, there is a majority of the population that does not see itself as living under an oppressive regime or blindly imprisoned by a social system bent on keeping them down. Sure there are people who think that, but if you want to find intelligent people who think that, you need to go to college campuses and coffee houses.
The same arguments of impermeable social strata and prophecies of impending social collapse are, to me, tired. They seem to appear fairly regularly on a fifty year cycle, and thankfully mainstream America doesn't listen. And why should it? Mainstream America will never espouse fringe views unless they perceive their situation to be dire. They don't, because to them it isn't, and that's all that matters. As persuasive as some brands of social thought may have been to them when they were in college or grad school, most Americans divorce these ideas as they become less divorced from responsibility to the point where most who think this way beyond the age of thirty are college professors.
Most Americans see actions taken recently by the government to be unfortunate, but some think that those actions are justified. I'm one of those guys. People who don't speak out against the government or seek sweeping social change don't always hold those beliefs due to naivete. Many who don't have the same problems with society as you do aren't simply acquiescing uncritically. I'm just thankful this "naive" population outnumbers the socialists.
"Your revolution's over, Lebowski! The bums lost! Condolences! The bums will always lose!"
Posted by: Charles | Nov 30, 2007 9:12:20 AM
I think that last quote might have actually made me an official flame artist!
Posted by: Charles | Nov 30, 2007 9:14:55 AM
"Mainstream America will never espouse fringe views unless they perceive their situation to be dire."
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For every person who starts using the web to get their news and not the Nightly Noise and for every new person who needs to file bankruptcy but can't now. For each foreclosure that is not the fault of the borrower.
For these reasons and many more, there will be more American citizens who wonder why things need to be this way. And then it will no longer be fringe.
And I don't believe it is fringe. I think it is becoming more common for regular folks to question "the system."
And yes I thank the internet and digital media and access for that completely.
Things will change because of it. It might not be change of the system as the system and those in power don't wish for a shift in control but what will change is the level of piracy, underground collectives and movements.
And I plan to be a part of that.
That is until I have kids and move to Metairie to keep them safe.
Posted by: humid haney | Nov 30, 2007 9:29:01 AM
Haney, thanks for getting this back on topic.
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Posted by: Charles | Nov 30, 2007 9:42:49 AM
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